An Interview with Peter Godwin
by John Noonan
Full article: An Interview with Peter Godwin
Sometimes the most effective COIN lessons are found in the strangest of places. Some time ago, while researching Zimbabwe’s staggering collapse under the Robert Mugabe regime, I stumbled upon When a Crocodile Eats the Sun – a deeply moving memoir of Zimbabwe’s corrosive rot, told by native Zimbabwean reporter, Mr. Peter Godwin. Godwin spun his tale with an enviably smooth narration, blending microcosmic personal tragedies with macrocosmic political and economic failures into a sad, powerful account of a functional nation-state’s collapse. When I finished reading, I wanted more. Digging into Godwin’s Amazon.com author history, I came across Mukiwa, the fascinating autobiography of a white boy growing up in colonial Africa (and winner of the Orwell Prize for political writing).
Mukiwa spans multiple governments in a single country, as Godwin’s wonderfully interesting experiences stretch from Rhodesia as a British Crown Colony, to an international pariah, to an undeclared Republic, an unrecognized hybrid state in Zimbabwe-Rhodesia, and finally to Mugabe’s Zimbabwe. While Mukiwa isn’t necessarily a war memoir (though Godwin did spend much of his career as a war correspondent), several chapters are dedicated to his time serving with the British South Africa Police during the Rhodesian Bush War. So poignant were the stories from Godwin’s tour, I sent a copy to a close friend serving in Afghanistan. He too was taken with how simply and effectively Godwin laid out basic COIN principles, so much so that he had his NCOs read the chapters that I had bookmarked.
I reached out to Mr. Godwin, now a professor at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs, who generously agreed to sit down for an interview.
Full article: An Interview with Peter Godwin
John Noonan is a national security and defense writer with The Weekly Standard and Military.com. Both Mukiwa and When a Crocodile Eats the Sun are available for purchase at Amazon.com.
Comments (11)
Like Godwin, I am a Rhodesian (now a happy American citizen) and he is spot on in his observations.
There is one glaring difference in these wars - in Rhodesia we were native Rhodesians fighting other Rhodesians. Meaning we spoke the language, grew up in the terrain and knew the culture. The Selous Scouts were overwhelmingly black Rhodesians, and the white Scouts all spoke the local language and for the most part were farmers or famers kids.
Godwin correctly states how the UAV can be a game changer by striking support bases in Pakistan.
I am afraid even Gen. McChrystal will fail over there, and more of our men will die needlessly.
Our enemies are Pakistans and Saudi Arabia and Al Queda - not the Taliban.
But thank you for interviewing Godwin anyway.
.
Posted by Skinner | October 15, 2009 3:04 PM
Skinner
The Taliban were host to Al Qaida and allowed them to operate camps there.Currrent evidence proves a very close knit relationship between Al Qaida and Taliban in Pakistan. OF COURSE the Taliban are our enemy.
Posted by Dennis D | October 15, 2009 4:26 PM
Dennis D:
You are correct, of course.
But why not focus on killing the Taliban money supply in Pakistan, and the AQ money supply in Saudi?
Why send thousands of troops into Afghanistan?
What exactly are they fighting for there? I am no dove, I am a US veteran, but if I was there right now I'd be asking the same questions.
Our troops there need a reason to fight - I have not heard a clear answer. If you can provide one, please do - and I am sincere in this request, no snarkiness at all.
Thanks.
.
Posted by Skinner | October 15, 2009 5:16 PM
Godwins memoirs or stories in Mukiwa relating to his experiences in the bush war are heavily embellished and very fictional. As a National Service Patrol Officer in duty branch, he would not have undertaken or even been tasked with some of the duties and operations he refered to.It would have been a better book without having to do this. In any event, those who know him or knew him in those days will confirm he was hardly the " bush going warrior" he makes himself out to be. A great shame.
Posted by Splitpin | October 17, 2009 10:33 AM
Splitspin: should you choose to libel someone so viciously, it would be best if you substantiated your claims and did so without the protective cover of anonymity.
Attacking someone's character and honor based on what appears to be a hunch is beyond contempt. Mr. Godwin took the time to sit down and offer his wealth of expertise to the SWJ community. I'm deeply embarrassed that I put him in a position where he was exposed to your vindictiveness.
Posted by John Noonan | October 18, 2009 11:38 AM
Mr. Noonan's comment put another way...
(source: xkcd)
Posted by Rigs | October 18, 2009 3:00 PM
Hey great interview, from start to finish. Rhodesia, Rhodesia, Rhodesia -- why do US forces not examine this perfect case study further? I've read maybe 3 good papers on the subject from NWC, ACSC, and AWC... combined!
2 key lessons need to be drawn here and adopted in Afghanistan. Godwin makes the first one clear -- Afghani version of the Selous Scouts! Geez don't waste time, manpower, and resources keeping these captured Talis under lock and key -- flush them back down the pipes and see what they unclog! Second, why are we forcing this inept Western style national government down their throats? Tribal leaders should be defacto "elected" representatives to a federal congress (kills electoral corruption and preserves their traditional leadership), make the place look like a Confederacy with a national army and police. Their traditional rule of law should come first -- it'll be ugly as a inbred dog with a shaved ass, but at least it'd work.
Really sharp interview guys, handing it off to a couple of buddies who are still active duty.
W2
Posted by Walt W. | October 19, 2009 12:47 AM
Glad to hear a W2 is clued up on Rhodesia - I do hope you get further information to your buddies.
By the way, the Selous Scouts had their begining in the jungles of Malaya in the early 50's.
A large group of Rhodesian volunteers, the Malay Scouts, served alongside Brit forces. The CO of the Malay Scouts (which would become C Sqn. Special Air Service Rhodesia Regiment) was a young Captain called Ron Reid-Daley who went on to form the Selous Scouts in 1973 as a pseudo-terrorist force.
It was formed specifically to take part in tracking and infiltration operations in which soldiers would pretend to be guerrillas -- so-called pseudo-operators. These tactics were used very successfully in the Mau Mau Uprising. In addition, it often recruited from enemy forces; captured guerrillas were offered a choice between prison, a trial and possible execution or joining the Selous Scouts.
Reid-Daley wrote and excellent book "Selous Scouts: Top Secret War", a worthwhile read if you can find it. Another one, "The War of the Running Dogs" covers the success of the Malaysia Campaign.
Just a slight nit-picking point: an Afghani is a unit of currency, an Afghan is the person or persons.
Cheers.
.
Posted by Skinner | October 22, 2009 8:08 PM
It sounds like my comments, which are both truthful and factual, have touched a nerve. I have no intention to be vindictive, only honest. Are you afraid of the truth or criticism ? If so, time you changed professions.
Why not let Godwin confirm or deny what I have said ? There is no libel in what I have said, Godwin makes no effort to disguise that fact that Mukiwa is fictional in any event but his style of narrative misleads the reader into presuming his account is factual - which it is far from. There are far better accounts of a factual and first hand nature ( "The Elite", "The Saints", "Only my friends call me Crouks", "Top Secret War" and others)than Godwins book and those of us who did " the hard mile" take offense that a journo like Godwin should climb on the band wagon. While his books are good, why fictionalise like he has and then sit back and lead the reader into adeception of truth??
My reasons for remaining anonyomous are that I am a serving member elsewhere in the world now.
Hamba gahle - go well.
Splitpin
Posted by splitpin | October 25, 2009 3:40 AM
Hey Splitspin - famba zvakhanaka, shamwari kumina.
Posted by Skinner | October 25, 2009 6:19 PM
Splitspin: I'm confused. You're saying that Godwin makes it clear he's fictionalizing then say he's trying to hide it!? Huh!???
Posted by Walt W. | October 27, 2009 12:37 PM